Feedback: An actual real live Korean man speaks out.

I've been kind of cracked up at the amount of traffic and questions those silly dating posts have generated. Why? Because I'm not exactly known amongst my nearest and dearest for the being the savviest in the love department. I'm more the type who kind of just sneers around at couples (except gay couples -- they are always the exception, and everything they do is perfect and fine by me [I don't know -- don't ask]), and is known for having "friends". In quotation marks. For the most part, I'm not exactly a fan of dating. And I'm not very good at it either, being seemingly inherently far too blunt to allow the whole song-and-dance to operate very smoothly. I also haven't had a single committed (or even semi-committed) relationship the entire time I've been in the ROK. Nor was in one for a incredibly long time before I came.

Also, I've only been here for a year and a half. I'm not exactly what one might call an expert. I have spent a lot of my time here with Koreans, which somehow seems to be something that a lot of the foreigners I've known here can't quite seem to manage. Which has always struck me as a bit odd. I mean, they're everywhere. And a lot of that time has been spent discussing cultural differences openly with each other, as we encounter them within our interactions. Which has been really cool. And I guess that's where most of my perspective comes from.

This is all an insanely long preamble to the fact that I'm about to re-post a comment that just showed up on the 나쁜놈 entry, which I sincerely hope the author doesn't mine. But I basically almost did a little happy dance in the middle of my kitchen when I read it.

Why? Because it represents a perspective I've been beating my head against a wall trying to find here in Korea. A man, a Korean-Korean man, who doesn't fall on either side of some bizarrely huge divide between 'bad guy' and 'nice guy'. A man who neither completely judges a woman for being a fucking human being, nor has slid so far into a completely shallow and debauched view of the world that absolutely everything you do is alright by him, because the world is a fucking carousel ride headed straight for the pits of hell anyway. Or. Something.

This is getting worse by the second. Sorry. Let's just have a look now:

PD said...

good god, liz...sometimes i think you're really a korean girl posing as an english teacher from america. and this post only reinforces that. but i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt because i want to believe that you are this incredibly bright young woman who has figured us koreans out. :) that said, i'm going to refute two minor points you made about us korean men. but before i do, let me tell you a little bit about me.

i am, believe it or not, a full korean-korean. i did, however, spend my formative years in america, having gone to a foreign language school here in seoul and an american university as well as a grad school there as a coveted english major. :) in short, i am a 유학생. or i was. hence, my "proficiency" in english. okay, now that we got that out of the way, let me tell you a little bit about me and my never-been-outside-of-korea friends here in seoul.

when we meet korean girls, whether we've known them for 10 minutes or 10 years, we OPENLY make sexual innuendos and overtures because we found that honesty works best when trying to get laid. we do know some korean guys who are more shy or reserved or reluctant or whatever. but not us. and not those we know and have encountered. because really, most korean guys hate 내숭. we loathe it and don't want to waste time with chicks who are 내숭. we like honesty. directness. and hey, if you're at a club which is all about booking, you're there to meet guys. and we know that you women have hormones like we men and we know you get horny like we do. so why beat around the bush? honesty works and a lot of korean guys have figured that out.

koreans can be very blunt and when it comes to sex, many of us are no different. and yes, some of these are intended for one night stands, but a lot of my friends, myself included, have had one night stands that led to long-term relationships and i almost ended up marrying mine.

so while i'm blown away by your analysis for much of it is dead on, i do think you're slightly off when it comes to us joking about sex. we do it and we do it often. it doesn't mean we want to have sex with the girl and then date her, but if the sex is too good, it often leads to relationships.

two, if a korean man wants to spend some quality time together watching movies, drinking soju and just talking or cuddling in your apartment rather than go out and be seen, yes, he wants to have sex with you. but he also probably wants to chill and spend some quality, private time with you because as you know, it's a luxury in korea and you know how much we koreans love luxury. so i really don't think there's anything wrong with a korean guy wanting to take advantage of that extra benefit of dating someone who lives alone if the opportunity is there.

that's all i have to say. you should really get your own TV show in korea...or at least a newspaper column.

So the first thing I have to say is this: a lot of where I went with that post was me kind of projecting out a bit. Because I was asked to consider something from a perspective I really just don't have, which is that of a commitment minded person who is worried about fidelity. Fidelity has not been a concern of mine since I've been in Korea, or for a long time before. So some of that was kind of, if I were this kind of person, what would I need to be looking for?

That having been said, I have been operating largely under the understanding that, by and large, Korean men, frankly, don't do a fantastic job of handling a woman's sexuality well. A lot of that judgment, I should add, also comes from the fact that before I came to Korea, I was in a big huge liberal artist Brooklyn bubble for nearly six years. Perhaps if I had spent those six years (which are rather important ones to consider, when dealing with the subject at hand) back in my red state Southern Baptist hometown, I might not be so quick to make it a "Korean man" issue in my own mind.

But now I'm intrigued. And I take these corrections not only with a big huge dose of the humility of a person who already basically knew she didn't entirely know what she was talking about, but also with a huge sigh of relief and, actually, joy.

Korean men who hate 내숭? Who will take you seriously as a human being, who is also a woman, who has all of the same feelings and desires as they do, as men?

Um. Where? Phone numbers and addresses, please!

Ladies. I know you want to hear more from this guy. I know I'm not the only one who is like, yeah Korean guys dress nice and have good manners and stuff and things and it's all great and fantastic and I'm having a great time and look he loves his mom! and everything is great and fine and I'm happy, but dear god sometimes I actually feel a little bit like I can't breathe or it might be in the wrong direction.

Girls? Questions? Comments? PD, would you be up for a little guest bloggership, if it came down to it?

Let me get the ball rolling. Here's what I'm wondering. When I said that Westerners would joke around about sex, I didn't mean to imply that Koreans don't. I'm obviously well aware that Korean men make sexual comments and sexual jokes. All the time. I guess what I meant is that I've just been under the impression that the implication is a bit different. A Western male friend may make an off-the-cuff sexual comment, and it may have literally no actual sexual intent behind it at all. At all. He may view you entirely as a sister, and have no intentions of ever, ever laying a finger on you. The joking, although sexually based, can actually sometimes be more along the lines of even the way that one male friend might tease another. I've been under the impression, however, that when Korean men make a sexual comment or a joke to a woman, generally he means it. There is definite sexual intent. Even if the intent isn't, "I want to take you home tonight," or, "I only want to sleep with you and then never call you again," it's still there. Which to me isn't the same as the other. And it doesn't feel the same either.

I am I wrong about this? I would love to be....

Note: The comments on this entry are important. I take back a bit of that happy dance, in retrospect, and in consideration of the things that Diana, who is incredibly wise (and obviously knows a good Korean guy when she sees one) has pointed out.

Yes we all know Korean men can handle female sexuality when it means (he thinks) he will be getting (easy?) sex. How does the average Korean man stand up to it out of a female friend, or, better yet, a (potential) girlfriend?

Questions, questions....